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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Apr 22 2005, 10:56 |
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µoªíªÌ: ÃQ§µ¬F Apr 22 2005, 11:24 |
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Apr 22 2005, 12:31 | ||||
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µoªíªÌ: °Ñ¿ÑABC Apr 22 2005, 13:01 |
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µoªíªÌ: ªüåÈ Apr 22 2005, 15:21 |
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µoªíªÌ: Pearltea Apr 22 2005, 16:26 |
Is the exam on a specific day of the week? Is there an exact answer for that? |
µoªíªÌ: ¶À¤y¤p¸é Apr 22 2005, 16:43 |
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µoªíªÌ: Anyone17 Apr 22 2005, 20:33 |
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Apr 22 2005, 21:25 | ||||||
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No. It could be a "surprise" as long as the exam is not on saturday. But there's a problem of how people define "a surprise".
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µoªíªÌ: Anyone17 Apr 22 2005, 21:52 |
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µoªíªÌ: ÀjÀj Apr 23 2005, 01:25 |
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Apr 23 2005, 01:31 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: °Ñ¿ÑABC Apr 23 2005, 03:01 |
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Apr 23 2005, 03:07 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: ªüåÈ Apr 23 2005, 05:38 |
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µoªíªÌ: ÀjÀj Apr 23 2005, 06:22 | ||||
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Apr 23 2005, 07:41 | ||||||
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Apr 23 2005, 08:05 | ||||
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µoªíªÌ: ÃQ§µ¬F Apr 23 2005, 12:59 |
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Apr 23 2005, 20:03 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: °Ñ¿ÑABC Apr 24 2005, 13:49 |
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Apr 24 2005, 22:10 | ||||
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µoªíªÌ: °Ñ¿ÑABC Apr 25 2005, 03:04 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: ·¨«Â§Q Apr 25 2005, 03:49 |
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µoªíªÌ: ¤å»· Apr 25 2005, 04:07 |
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µoªíªÌ: SS-N-19 May 25 2005, 23:36 |
Interesting problem, never heard of it before. But I know a story about a king and a deathrole prisoner. The king told the prisoner that he will be executed on one morning in the following week. The prisoner must not know which day it is and the king assures that it will be a surprise to him (that means the prisoner is not going to know it the night before that morning). Then the prisoner argues that he could not be executed on any day, reasoning by a similar logic mentioned in this topic. However, he was executed wednesday morning and it was a complete surprise to him. I think it's a variant to this problem. |
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ May 26 2005, 04:07 | ||
You're right, that is a variant with the same underlying principle. |
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¤£¯à²z¸Ñ¨Ï¥Î°²³]«e´£ªº¦X²z©Ê¡A»{¬°¨Ï¥Î°²³]©Ê«e´£µ¥©ó¥Ù¬Þ¡A¥i¨£§A½T¹ê¤£©ú¥Õ§Ú·Q»¡ªºªF¦è¡C ¨º§Ú¤]¨S¿ìªk¡A§Ú¤w¸g¥ÎNºØ¤è¦¡¸ò§A¸ÑÄÀ¹L¤F¡A§A¤£À´´N¥u¯à¬Ý§O¤Hªº¸ÑÄÀ¤F¡C ½d¨Ò¡G http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abductive_reasoning |
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µoªíªÌ: ³X«È_willyho Jun 10 2005, 17:02 |
Let me try Conditions 1 Exam next week 2 anyday next week not known If on saturday, then it can be known on the friday therefore does not imply to condition 2 that the day cannot be known If on friday, then there cannot be exam mon to thursday If on thursday it cannot be monday to wednesday if on wednesday it cannot be monday to tuesday if on monday there is no assumption to be made. Unless there is school on sunday and there was no exam. But how do you infer that exam is not on monday assuming no exams on sunday. But it is based on the assumption that it is a known fact that monday on the start of next week. This depends then on whether sunday is seen as the start of the next week or end of the week. Therefore if sunday is taken as the start of next week then it obviously cannot be accounted for based on the assumption that there is exam on a sunday. If sunday is interpreted as the end of the week then it is not possible for exam to be on that day. |
µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Jun 10 2005, 21:06 |
Irrelevant. We assume that Sunday is a holiday, so no test could be taken on Sunday. |
µoªíªÌ: willyho@internet cafe Jun 11 2005, 09:58 |
so therefore to satisfy both conditions of exam next week and that the day could not be known would be a monday. Because on that saturday when the class was told that there is an exam the next week it could be anyday mon to sat. it is only after the monday that any hypothesis can be formed. Say 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 = mon 2 = tues etc if it is not day 1, then the exam must be on 2 3 4 5 6 but it must be after 1 that it could be 2 3 4 5 6 therefore unless it is already known that 1 is not exam day there is no way of guessing whether exam is on 2 3 4 5 or 6 but since the day cannot be known, the conclusion is that there will definitely be exam the next week |
µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Jun 11 2005, 20:29 | ||||
1 is not given as a precondition, so one cannot take it for granted before proving it. The student does not need to---and he did not---take it for granted when doing his reasoning. Your statment only implies that 1 is not a precondition. But that alone, is not sufficient to prove "There is no way of guessing whether exam is on 2 3 4 5 or 6".
That is not a conclusion, that is a precondition. |
µoªíªÌ: willyho@internet cafe Jun 12 2005, 09:26 |
ok fine the precondition is that there will be exam the next week so if i went further not 2 then must be 3 4 5 6 but not 5 implies definitely 6 because 5 is based on the condition of 1' n 2' n 3' n 4' therefore the date is known if also not 5. therefore it must be before 6 that means 1 to 5 leaving 1 2 3 4 5 if not on 4 then it must be 5 violation of condition. If the reasoning goes on, down to 2' then it must be 1 and therefore violation of condition 2 1' = 2U3U4U5U6 2' = 3U4U5U6 3' = 4U5U6 4' = 5U6 and 5'=6 but because 5' = 6 it must be between 1 to 5 and the events are mutually exclusive... and so the above cannot be accepted but what if the events are viewed as continuous rather than discrete? |
µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Jun 12 2005, 10:02 |
I don't see it, how could you get the conclusion "the above cannot be accepted" from something like "it must be between 1 to 5 and the events are mutually exclusive"? Also, please define "the above" and "the events". |
µoªíªÌ: ³X«È_willyho Jun 12 2005, 18:31 |
Let me try again... If not day 1 it must be day 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 if not day 2 it must be day 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 if not day 3 it must be day 4 or 5 or 6 if not day 4 it must be day 5 or 6 But if not day 5 it must be day 6 therefore the day of exam must be between days 1 and up to including day 5 as a result it must be between day 1 to 5 event 1 = exam on day 1 etc So if exam was day 1 then it cannot be any other day must be bad wording... I'll try again later |
µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Jun 12 2005, 19:49 | ||||
This is not right. You should say something like if not day 2 it must be day 1 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or if not day 1 nor 2 it must be day 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 not if not day 2 it must be day 3 or 4 or 5 or 6
You don't need all those "if......it must be" to get this conclusion. We simply know that there is only one test in the coming week so if the test is on any specific day, it cannot be "also" on a day other than that specific day. And as far as I can see, this conclusion has nothing to do in solving the paradox. |
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µoªíªÌ: Superdog Sep 4 2005, 05:05 |
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µoªíªÌ: Superdog Sep 4 2005, 11:31 |
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µoªíªÌ: ¥î¤l§ñ Sep 4 2005, 12:21 |
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Sep 4 2005, 23:06 |
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µoªíªÌ: °Ñ¿ÑABC Sep 5 2005, 02:27 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: ¦Ê¤Hªø©x Sep 5 2005, 14:34 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: Superdog Sep 6 2005, 01:01 |
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µoªíªÌ: ¶À¤y¤p¸é Sep 6 2005, 11:19 | ||||
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µoªíªÌ: Superdog Sep 6 2005, 11:45 |
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µoªíªÌ: Ãi³D Sep 6 2005, 13:53 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: ¦Ê¤Hªø©x Sep 9 2005, 12:18 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: Superdog Sep 9 2005, 14:15 | ||||||
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µoªíªÌ: ¯«¸g¿« Sep 10 2005, 09:36 | ||||||||
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µoªíªÌ: ¯«¸g¿« Sep 10 2005, 09:50 |
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µoªíªÌ: Superdog Sep 10 2005, 21:21 |
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µoªíªÌ: ¦Ê¤Hªø©x Sep 23 2005, 14:27 | ||||||||||
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µoªíªÌ: Superdog Sep 23 2005, 17:08 | ||||||||||||||
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µoªíªÌ: ¦Ê¤Hªø©x Sep 25 2005, 03:41 | ||||||||||||||||
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µoªíªÌ: Superdog Oct 9 2005, 01:56 |
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µoªíªÌ: Superdog Oct 9 2005, 08:42 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: Pieta Oct 9 2005, 12:21 | ||||||
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µoªíªÌ: ¥q°¨¥ò¹F Oct 9 2005, 14:07 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: Superdog Oct 9 2005, 14:59 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: Superdog Oct 9 2005, 17:16 | ||||||||||
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µoªíªÌ: Superdog Oct 10 2005, 07:04 | ||||||||||||
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µoªíªÌ: Caesar Nov 30 2008, 07:39 | ||||
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µoªíªÌ: Caesar Nov 30 2008, 07:45 | ||||
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µoªíªÌ: Caesar Nov 30 2008, 07:58 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: Caesar Nov 30 2008, 08:28 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: ÃQ§µ¬F Nov 30 2008, 08:30 | ||||
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µoªíªÌ: ÃQ§µ¬F Nov 30 2008, 12:54 | ||||||
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µoªíªÌ: Caesar Nov 30 2008, 13:00 | ||||
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µoªíªÌ: ÃQ§µ¬F Nov 30 2008, 13:22 |
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µoªíªÌ: ÃQ§µ¬F Nov 30 2008, 13:41 | ||||||
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µoªíªÌ: ªü¿f Dec 1 2008, 01:05 |
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Nov 16 2009, 02:50 |
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µoªíªÌ: Pieta Jul 9 2010, 04:50 |
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Jul 9 2010, 07:53 |
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µoªíªÌ: Pieta Jul 9 2010, 11:59 |
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µoªíªÌ: Pieta Jul 9 2010, 12:12 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: Pieta Jul 9 2010, 12:48 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: Pieta Jul 10 2010, 07:32 | ||||||
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µoªíªÌ: Caesar Jul 10 2010, 07:46 | ||
(§Ú¬O¯uªº¤£ª¾¹D) Logical formalismªº¤¤Ä¶¤£¬O¡uÅÞ¿è§Î¦¡¥D¸q¡v¶Ü? ÁÙ¬O¤S¦³©w¸q¶¶§Ç°ÝÃD²o¯A¨ä¤¤ ? ¦pªG³s¦b°Q½×°Ï°Q½×³£¤£¤¹³\§O¤H´¡¸Ü/±µ¸Ü ,¤£¦p§A̦ۤv¦bmsn°Q½×¦n¤F . ¡õ¡õ |
µoªíªÌ: Pieta Jul 10 2010, 08:02 | ||||
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µoªíªÌ: Pieta Jul 10 2010, 08:08 | ||||
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Jul 10 2010, 11:12 | ||||
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Jul 10 2010, 11:17 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: Pieta Jul 30 2010, 04:00 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Jul 30 2010, 04:22 |
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µoªíªÌ: Pieta Jul 30 2010, 10:27 | ||
§Ú´N¬OnÅ¥§A¤j¤j¤è¤èªºÁ¿¥X¨Ó¡A´N¤@ÓÃã¦Ó¤w¡A§AË©³·Q¼µ¦h¤[¡H§O®`Àê¹À¡A¤j¤j¤è¤èªºÁ¿¥X¨ÓÃÒ©ú§AÀ´°Ú¡C »¡°Ú¡Alogical formalismË©³¥s¤°»ò¡H |
µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Jul 30 2010, 13:15 |
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µoªíªÌ: Pieta Jul 30 2010, 14:39 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Jul 30 2010, 16:32 | ||
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µoªíªÌ: Pieta Jul 31 2010, 16:11 |
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µoªíªÌ: ®}¤¸ª½ Jul 31 2010, 18:10 | ||||
»¡¥Õ¤F¡A§A¬J¨S¬ÝÀ´¨º¸`¦b»¡¬Æ»ò¡A¤]¤£ª¾¹Dlogical formalism¦³¬Æ»ò§t·N¡A§ó¤£¥²´£formal logic¨s³º¬O¬Æ»òªF¦è¡Aformal system¤S¬O¬Æ»òªF¦è¡C§A®£©È¥uª¾¹Dlogic©Mformalism¤À¶}¬d¦r¨å«ç»ò¼g¦¨¤¤¤å¡Aµ²ªG§Ú¤@Åý§Aµ¹¸ÑÄÀ§A´N²{§Î¤F----¯Ê¥F¦³Ãöªº°ò¦ª¾ÃÑ¡A¹ïµü·JI´º¤@µL©Òª¾¡A¦ÛµM¥u¯à®³¡u-ism......³q±`¦³¯S§O¥Î·N......±MÄÝ·NÃÑ......©Ò¥H§Ú§PÂ_......¡v³oºØ²@µLÀç¾iªº¸Ü¨ÓÀ³¥I¤F¡C
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µoªíªÌ: Pieta Aug 1 2010, 07:03 | ||||||||||
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