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> 安全感
Pearltea
發表於: Sep 3 2015, 03:15  評價+1
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QUOTE (試驗帳號2 @ Sep 3 2015, 00:41)
Are these Cognitive Science? To be someone who would not easily governed by the government; who would not believe in fanaticism.  Politicans and religious leaders will not like such a person.  Sometimes we need to be cynical to stay awaken.  Your post reminds me something, which from me and 徐元直 respectively.  More detail discussions can be found in [原創] 洗腦

妖言如何惑眾?
http://hksan.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=15471

[原創] 洗腦
http://hksan.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=8796&st=0

Thanks for sincere response.  I sent you something by PM, and hopefully it helps smile.gif

我不會聯想到洗腦, 至少我覺沒有人/事會因為灌輸這些思想而直接/間接得益. 但那些Propaganda(政治宣傳)和某些宗教的動機和目的不同. 

商業宣傳也有這樣的動機. 像那家叫De Beers的鑽石公司多年前創作的那句'A Diamond is Forever'的宣傳口號(香港廣告譯作"鑽石恆久遠,一顆永留傳", 相信大家都聽過)來增加鑽石銷售. 用物質與感情聯繫, 也令更多情侶開始用物質與金錢來衡量感情.  這些'策略'拆散了多少對真的想'forever'的情侶. 

另一個例子是近年來美國的麻疹個案逐年上升, 原因是有個英國醫生用偽造硏究指出自閉症和麻疹預防針有關連.  導致越來越多家長不讓孩子打麻疹預防針. 原來那個醫生背後有一個大律師團支持, 目的就是要"搶劫"藥廠公司.

好像有點離題了. 女生們的態度只是被各方面的conventional wisdom(傳統智慧)感染了. 那些所謂的智慧, 本來不是用來害人的, 只是多帶些'once bitten, twice shy' (一朝被蛇咬十年怕草繩)的想法而偏向負面罷了.

本篇文章已被 Pearltea 於 Sep 3 2015, 04:18 編輯過
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徐元直
發表於: Sep 3 2015, 03:58  評價+2
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QUOTE (試驗帳號2 @ Sep 2 2015, 09:41 )
Are these Cognitive Science? To be someone who would not easily governed by the government; who would not believe in fanaticism.  Politicans and religious leaders will not like such a person.  Sometimes we need to be cynical to stay awaken.  Your post reminds me something, which from me and 徐元直 respectively.  More detail discussions can be found in [原創] 洗腦

妖言如何惑眾?
http://hksan.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=15471

[原創] 洗腦
http://hksan.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=8796&st=0

Thanks for sincere response.  I sent you something by PM, and hopefully it helps smile.gif

To analyze insecurity with irrationality, 'brainwashing', or 'shoulds-and-should-nots' may be heading towards the wrong direction.

The proper response to statements reflecting relationship insecurity is NOT to analyze and point out its logical inconsistency. You have to first understand the purpose of such behavior. Most of the time people say it to express or "act out" internalized stress, and they are expecting you to share this emotional burden, to empathize, not to challenge its legitimacy. By the way, you should never challenge the legitimacy of having an emotion, because to feel something does not require logical justification. You may  challenge the thoughts generated by that emotion, because thoughts could be wrong and illogical. But if you do that right away without first acknowledging and 'accepting' the emotion, then communication will not be effective, whatever you say may simply be interpreted as denial and rejection.

This is why you should really listen to what Pearltea suggested:

QUOTE
I know you have great intention to understand your loved ones and want to prove that relationship means more than providing securities, unfortunately it's beyond your ability to fix that.  You can though, lead by example. Be the person who is willing to offer open ears and listen to their concerns, and shares your wisdom as appropriate. 

On the other hand, if you don't care how others relate to you or how you could support them, you just want to stay away from their way of thinking and stay cynical, then sure, you're probably right in thinking that they're being irrational. But bear in mind that we all have some levels of social insecurity, which is a by-product of our innate psychological need to socialize. The women you described may choose to act out the stress of feeling insecure by making emotionally focused (and irrational) statements, whereas people falling into the male gender stereotype (which also includes some women) may act out using cynicism, stoicism, and self-estrangement, which results in them being labeled as nerds, 宅, or 毒. The fact is, as long as the sense of insecurity does not become overwhelming or disabling, it should be considered healthy. This is evolutionarily preferred.


As for what may cause this sense of insecurity to become overwhelming or disabling, there are many possible reasons. You can look at it developmentally (e.g. attachment styles), as well as socially (e.g. unrealistic social expectations). I'm unable to go into details here because this is a complicated subject that warrants case-by-case analysis.


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試驗帳號2
發表於: Sep 3 2015, 04:27  
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QUOTE (Pearltea @ Sep 3 2015, 03:15 )
QUOTE (試驗帳號2 @ Sep 3 2015, 00:41)
Are these Cognitive Science? To be someone who would not easily governed by the government; who would not believe in fanaticism.  Politicans and religious leaders will not like such a person.  Sometimes we need to be cynical to stay awaken.  Your post reminds me something, which from me and 徐元直 respectively.  More detail discussions can be found in [原創] 洗腦

妖言如何惑眾?
http://hksan.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=15471

[原創] 洗腦
http://hksan.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=8796&st=0

Thanks for sincere response.  I sent you something by PM, and hopefully it helps smile.gif

我不會聯想到洗腦, 至少我覺沒有人/事會因為灌輸這些思想而令自己得益. 但那些Propaganda(政治宣傳)和某些宗教的動機和目的不同. 

商業宣傳也有這樣的動機. 像那家叫De Beers的鑽石公司多年前創作的那句'A Diamond is Forever'的宣傳口號(香港廣告譯作"鑽石恆久遠,一顆永留傳", 相信大家都聽過)不知拆散了多少對真的想'forever'的情侶. 

另一個例子是近年來美國的麻疹個案逐年上升, 原因是有個英國醫生用偽造硏究指出自閉症和麻疹預防針有關連.  導致越來越多家長不讓孩子打麻疹預防針. 原來那個醫生背後有一個大律師團支持, 目的就是要"搶劫"藥廠公司.

好像有點離題了. 女生們的態度只是被各方面的conventional wisdom(傳統智慧)感染了. 那些所謂的智慧, 本來不是用來害人的, 只是多帶些'once bitten, twice shy' (一朝被蛇咬十年怕草繩)的想法而偏向負面罷了.

就如當初所想的那樣,沒有人可以改變甚麼,即使看透其中因果。社會、個人經驗、朋輩壓力、傳媒影響‥這些東西長期教化著人,他們應該要怎樣看事情;應該要怎樣生活‥就算知道一個人為什麼缺乏安全感,個人的能力都不足以做甚麼,充其量只能做自己的事。就算再關心一個人,都不能期望自己可以超越世俗對他/她的影響。他/她的信念也是他/她的尊嚴,即使信念裡面可能有偏見、迷信和各種好與壞。無論如何,信念是個人的,是頑固的。如果他/她是朋友、或戀人、或親人,我們總會接受對方。這是到目前為止的體會。
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試驗帳號2
發表於: Sep 3 2015, 05:29  
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QUOTE
To analyze insecurity with irrationality, 'brainwashing', or 'shoulds-and-should-nots' may be heading towards the wrong direction.

The proper response to statements reflecting relationship insecurity is NOT to analyze and point out its logical inconsistency. You have to first understand the purpose of such behavior. Most of the time people say it to express or "act out" internalized stress, and they are expecting you to share this emotional burden, to empathize, not to challenge its legitimacy. By the way, you should never challenge the legitimacy of having an emotion, because to feel something does not require logical justification. You may  challenge the thoughts generated by that emotion, because thoughts could be wrong and illogical. But if you do that right away without first acknowledging and 'accepting' the emotion, then communication will not be effective, whatever you say may simply be interpreted as denial and rejection.

This is why you should really listen to what Pearltea suggested:

QUOTE
On the other hand, if you don't care how others relate to you or how you could support them, you just want to stay away from their way of thinking and stay cynical, then sure, you're probably right in thinking that they're being irrational. But bear in mind that we all have some levels of social insecurity, which is a by-product of our innate psychological need to socialize. The women you described may choose to act out the stress of feeling insecure by making emotionally focused (and irrational) statements, whereas people falling into the male gender stereotype (which also includes some women) may act out using cynicismstoicism, and self-estrangement, which results in them being labeled as nerds, 宅, or 毒. The fact is, as long as the sense of insecurity does not become overwhelming or disabling, it should be considered healthy. This is evolutionarily preferred. 


As for what may cause this sense of insecurity to become overwhelming or disabling, there are many possible reasons. You can look at it developmentally (e.g. attachment styles), as well as socially (e.g. unrealistic social expectations). I'm unable to go into details here because this is a complicated subject that warrants case-by-case analysis.

When i found out the sense of insecurity is something beyond personal effort to solve, it's quite frustrating. Of course, challenge someone's emotions is not a realistic idea, although those emotions may not be rational. That's why I tried to express some sort of empathy, without telling them the beliefs what I disagree with. At that stage, I was still searching answers to solve the sense of insecurity. I believe someone would have the solution, it's just not me. As you said, they are having Emotional needs, but not any lesson. And, nobody is going to change one's expectation unless one's intended to. Perhaps accompany and stay silent are the few available choices.  Moreover, for one's unrealistic social expectations, the pleasant way to learn is to let her experience it.  Experience those beauty advertisements, men, vain religious beliefs and the truth of world, all by her own.
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參謀ABC
發表於: Sep 7 2015, 16:24  評價+5
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小資們擔憂的東西可真奢侈,安全感的基石難道不是這個?至少對懂事之後的我來說非常重要。
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本篇文章已被 參謀ABC 於 Sep 7 2015, 16:25 編輯過
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試驗帳號2
發表於: Sep 8 2015, 12:53  
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QUOTE (參謀ABC @ Sep 7 2015, 16:24 )
小資們擔憂的東西可真奢侈,安全感的基石難道不是這個?至少對懂事之後的我來說非常重要。
user posted image

謝參謀大人。至少這創意的回覆讓我笑了一下。既然都離題了‥當與某國開戰的後果是不堪設想的,全面戰爭成為不可觸犯的禁忌。諷刺地,人類和平背後竟然是用滅世武器指向對方。這種武器人有我有、擺放著算了,頂多用作茶餘飯後時吹吹水,比較哪國的技術厲害。若某日真要用上,沒有人笑得出來。
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Caesar
發表於: Sep 9 2015, 05:41  
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QUOTE (試驗帳號2 @ Aug 30 2015, 13:52 )
QUOTE (Caesar @ Aug 30 2015, 05:49)
由十一二歲開始聽鄰座的女同學聊安全感,到現在想來都聽超過一個生肖了。

結論就是很多時女生雖然嘴上嚷嚷什麼要安全感,
但她們本身也不太清楚到底她們要的東西從何而來。
(不過對於一個男生能否給她們安全感倒是能判斷的)

說到底,真正的安全感,
是建基於兩個人對於未來的共同寄望、規劃、並可預見地一步一步實現它。
安全感就是從這個過程中建立起來的。

當然影響上面這過程的因素有很多,例如錢、成熟度、共有興趣,甚至是權力、外貌等。

而很多人,也許是港女濫用了這個詞語,也許是真的混淆了因果本末倒置了,
總之就是搞混了。

謝謝回應。有時我覺得她們把一切想要的東西泛指為「安全感」。

所以才說港女濫用呀。


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